Experience with keto/fasting

[Goldenrod]

Improved cognitive function is one of the most studied aspects of ketosis. The brain actually prefers to function on ketones. They are more efficient and produce less "emission" then glycogen. That's why it is so effective for epileptics.
Here's just a quick quote from a ncbi paper. I'm sure there's better. If you actually wanted to do a deep dive on the subject you will find an insane amount of info supporting the position that cognitive function improves on ketones.
"
While the PFC and HPC show distinct mechanisms of age-related dysfunction, one variable that appears to be ubiquitous across regions is a declining ability to utilize glucose as an energy substrate. Notably, glucose metabolism within the brain is significantly lower in aged study participants (Petit-Taboué et al., 1998; Gold, 2005; Rasgon et al., 2005) and this decline correlates with impaired behavior on the HPC-dependent Morris watermaze task and a spatial alternation task (Gage et al., 1984; Gold, 2005). Furthermore, cognitively impaired aged rats have larger decreases in extracellular HPC glucose levels during task training relative to those observed in young animals (Gold, 2005). In humans there is an age-related decrease in brain glucose uptake that exceeds that of oxygen use, resulting in loss of brain aerobic glycolysis (Goyal et al., 2017). These metabolic deficits in older adults are a likely contributor to cognitive impairments, as the ability to produce ATP declines by 8% per decade of life (Short et al., 2005), making aged individuals particularly vulnerable to metabolic alterations. Moreover, metabolic syndrome (Agrawal and Gomez-Pinilla, 2012) and insulin insensitivity are associated with cognitive deficits (for review, see Greenwood and Winocur, 2005). Together, these data indicate the strong association between metabolism and cognitive function.

While over consumption of an obesogenic high fat and high sugar diet leads to loss of dendritic spines in the PFC and perirhinal cortex, as well as to impairments in spontaneous object recognition tasks and set-shifting (Bocarsly et al., 2015), to date, very few studies have examined the ability of diet to enhance cognition and improve synaptic function. Ketogenic diets (KDs) are high in fat and low in carbohydrates, which leads to the production of fat-derived ketone bodies within the liver that enter the Krebs cycle for ATP production (Krebs, 1966; Egan and D’Agostino, 2016). The ability of these diets to bypass glucose/insulin signaling, which is compromised in old animals, suggests a potential utility in enhancing brain function across the lifespan. Previously, we have shown that 12 weeks of a KD can alter the expression of glucose and monocarboxylate transporters in the HPC, and reinstate expression of the vesicular glutamate transporter in old animals to the levels observed in young (Hernandez et al., 2018a)."

Thanks for the info!

 

[Noname81]

Hi - please clarify, are you saying once you are fat adapted by the keto diet your cognitive function must improve? Where do you find the studies to show this, not saying it’s wrong but I prefer to see the science behind a strong statement.
Regarding your latter statement, I know many who fast and they all day hunger pains go away and when they are done wit their day to week fast - it can be difficult to get the body back into nutrition mode.
Appreciate any additional info you can provide - thank you

The two main reasons I have been on the Keto diet for the last year is increased cognitive function and curbed appetite. Do a quick google search. Search Keto diet and cognitive function. The second search being Keto diet and suppressed hunger. If I showed you studies would you bother reading them?

If you are sincerely interested in learning about the Keto diet Tomas Delauer has a great YouTube Channel. He is all about the science and studies of the Keto diet. At times some of his videos can become a bit confusing because he goes into the molecular level during his videos. Well it is not confusing,I just don’t know all the terms he is using

I do not fully understand this statement you wrote

“Regarding your latter statement, I know many who fast and they all day hunger pains go away and when they are done wit their day to week fast - it can be difficult to get the body back into nutrition mode.
Appreciate any additional info you can provide - thank you”

 

[victoria010]

I assume I will never say anything you haven't heard before. But being in ketosis is muscle sparring. So if I were to make an assumption, it would be that your body was not catabolizing muscle tissue. You probably just "went flat" and lost glycogen stores and water weight from your muscles.
Even from an evolutionary perspective it wouldn't make sense for our bodies to eat the very thing we need for survival the minute we went without exogenous nutrients like protein.

you are right muscles have lot of water weight If you are on ketosis or keto diet along with keto supplements you will definitely lose the water weight from your muscles and being fit.

 

[Affliction79]

@Xero88 @KetoMuscles can you guys tell me how many hours roughly one needs to fast to get into ketosis?

 

[KetoMuscles]

@Affliction79
I can try and come up with a more technical answer and get back to you but here's a quick answer. Usually by the time you eat breakfast you're kinda in ketosis meaning you're liver is releasing some ketones. But to actually get into a state of nutritional ketosis takes many days. And then to become "keto adapted" could take a week or two.
If you are in keto adapted phase and break ketosis with a binge meal then a regular fasting routine of 16-8 will have you back in keto in no time.
It's a much more complicated metabolic switch then just how many hours without eating.

 

[Affliction79]

@Affliction79
I can try and come up with a more technical answer and get back to you but here's a quick answer. Usually by the time you eat breakfast you're kinda in ketosis meaning you're liver is releasing some ketones. But to actually get into a state of nutritional ketosis takes many days. And then to become "keto adapted" could take a week or two.
If you are in keto adapted phase and break ketosis with a binge meal then a regular fasting routine of 16-8 will have you back in keto in no time.
It's a much more complicated metabolic switch then just how many hours without eating.

Yea I should’ve mentioned prolonged fasting to get into full ketosis. I can stay in ketosis once there with diet that’s no issue. But I meant do I need a 24, 48 or 72 hour fast to get there?

 

[KetoMuscles]

Yea I should’ve mentioned prolonged fasting to get into full ketosis. I can stay in ketosis once there with diet that’s no issue. But I meant do I need a 24, 48 or 72 hour fast to get there?

Obviously you know what you're doing, you just want to get there asap. Personally, if I was eating a lot of starchy carbs I would cut those out first before hitting a fast. Don't want the withdrawals and keto flu stuff. And will make the fast so much easier.
Here is a quick bit of info.
"Traditionally, ketosis is considered to occur when blood ketone levels of the ketone body known as beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) are >0.5 millimolar (mM).
For some people, it might take a week or two of keto dieting to reach sustained levels of ketones of 0.5mM or higher. However, in some people, just 2 - 4 days of a keto diet can raise circulating ketone body concentrations to 1 - 2 mM
How quickly ketosis occurs will depend on your level of carbohydrate intake as well as your physical activity levels. In general, lower carb intake and higher activity will allow you to enter ketosis faster.
After an overnight fast, ketone body concentrations can reach about 0.1 - 0.5mM—just below the official “ketosis threshold”. However, fasting for around 48 hours can elevate circulating ketones to around 1 - 2mM, and after 5 days, levels might reach 7 - 8mM."

 

[Affliction79]

Obviously you know what you're doing, you just want to get there asap. Personally, if I was eating a lot of starchy carbs I would cut those out first before hitting a fast. Don't want the withdrawals and keto flu stuff. And will make the fast so much easier.
Here is a quick bit of info.
"Traditionally, ketosis is considered to occur when blood ketone levels of the ketone body known as beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) are >0.5 millimolar (mM).
For some people, it might take a week or two of keto dieting to reach sustained levels of ketones of 0.5mM or higher. However, in some people, just 2 - 4 days of a keto diet can raise circulating ketone body concentrations to 1 - 2 mM
How quickly ketosis occurs will depend on your level of carbohydrate intake as well as your physical activity levels. In general, lower carb intake and higher activity will allow you to enter ketosis faster.
After an overnight fast, ketone body concentrations can reach about 0.1 - 0.5mM—just below the official “ketosis threshold”. However, fasting for around 48 hours can elevate circulating ketones to around 1 - 2mM, and after 5 days, levels might reach 7 - 8mM."

Thank you!